Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
April 23, 2014, 06:36:14 PM
Home Help Search Login Register
News:

+  PhillyFireNews.com Message Board
|-+  General Category
| |-+  General Discussion
| | |-+  FDNY Lt. says fire service needs culture of 'extinguishment not safety'
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 Print
Author Topic: FDNY Lt. says fire service needs culture of 'extinguishment not safety'  (Read 15504 times)
phillyfires
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 980



« on: February 26, 2010, 09:19:06 PM »

This guy has the right idea. Finally some one that makes sense in the fire service.

http://www.firerescue1.com/firefighter-safety/articles/483861-FDNY-Lt-says-fire-service-needs-culture-of-extinguishment-not-safety/
Logged
Bob Dobalina
Full Member
***
Posts: 169


« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2010, 10:56:50 PM »

Ray was lifted out of his Lt's spot in 28 Truck and detailed indefinitely to FDNY Headquarters (9 Metrotech Plaza) for making this speech out at the FDIC Conference last year.   The former Chief of Dept. didn't like the speech and had an issue with Ray wearing his Class A's while giving it.    Ray has since been returned to 28 Truck and I haven't heard anything about this since.

I thought it was a good speech, but yes, he should have left the Class A's at home. Wink
Logged
MakeTheStretch
Newbie
*
Posts: 1


« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2010, 02:38:47 PM »

Ray is one of the best instructors out there with tons of experience.  We need more instructors that teach from the streets were they became damn good firemen rather than out of the books written by pencil pushers.  The only way you save lives is by getting the job done quickly and efficently.  Some forget that you can agressively attack and search and still be safe.  We need to go back to the old school proven tactics of fighting fire "From the inside out"
Logged
tenfoothook
Newbie
*
Posts: 30


« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2010, 05:34:29 PM »

More great stuff in here from a senior boss....Check this out...      http://urbanfirefighter.com       
Logged
boston_rake
Full Member
***
Posts: 178


« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2010, 08:43:40 PM »


I noticed a familiar name in reading this news story a few weeks ago. Ray is a guy who knows how to do the job correctly and isn't afraid to speak the truth in public. The safety geeks need to put away the reflective vests, grab a hoseline and get in there and put the fire out.

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/02/14/2010-02-14_unconscious_man_saved_from_harlem_blaze_smoke_detector_alerted_neighbor_to_blaze.html
Logged
Bob Dobalina
Full Member
***
Posts: 169


« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2010, 02:06:46 AM »


I noticed a familiar name in reading this news story a few weeks ago. Ray is a guy who knows how to do the job correctly and isn't afraid to speak the truth in public. The safety geeks need to put away the reflective vests, grab a hoseline and get in there and put the fire out.

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/02/14/2010-02-14_unconscious_man_saved_from_harlem_blaze_smoke_detector_alerted_neighbor_to_blaze.html


Lt. Ray McCormack was also involved in another famous FDNY rescue back in May 1991 in Midtown Manhattan.  He assisted FF Kevin Shea R-1 and FF Patty Barr  TL-45 in a dual Roof-Rope Rescue.
Logged
boston_rake
Full Member
***
Posts: 178


« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2010, 08:44:43 AM »

I think of Lt. McCormack every time I see videos on line of jobs where the fire is blazing away, companies are evacuating the building, and everything is going downhill fast. If the first-arriving engine company was able to get interior and get water on the seat of the fire fast, chances are NONE of that bad stuff would have happened. Knocking down the bulk of the fire improves conditions for everyone and makes the job tremendously safer. There are too many "passive" engine companies who stay exterior or go 3-4 feet inside the door and spray water into the smoke. That's not anywhere near good enough. That initial line has to move FORWARD.

The volunteer fire service gets excited about flashy new apparatus and equipment, specialized rescue, RIT... even good, aggressive firefighters often shift their focus to truck work or rescue work. There needs to be more of a focus on good, old-fashioned, aggressive engine company operations.
Logged
DEP75
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 433


« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2010, 09:30:13 AM »

Lt. Ray McCormack was also involved in another famous FDNY rescue back in May 1991 in Midtown Manhattan.  He assisted FF Kevin Shea R-1 and FF Patty Barr  TL-45 in a dual Roof-Rope Rescue

If it is the one I'm thinking of, it was shown on a show called Emergency Response. It was a 11th or 12th floor recording studio and they came down from the roof. Patty used the rope to get the second person after they lowered Kevin to the next floor.
Logged

Retired Asst./2nd Asst. Chief Runnemede Fire Dept. NJ
brooklynresq
Newbie
*
Posts: 44


« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2010, 12:47:57 PM »

You're missing one important man involved in the whole rescue, Pat O'Keefe who anchored the the rope! Patty Brown was lifted out of Rescue 1 for a while because of this rescue, because they did not tie off to a substantial object. There was some other politics involved and ultimately Captain Hatton got the spot in Rescue 1 over Captain Brown, both top shelf men!

Lieutenant McCormack has always been about good old school fireground tactics, putting the fire out! I agree that far too often the fire service looks for the latest and greatest ways to fight fire, whether it be CAFS or some new method thought up by people who never fought a fire a day in their life. Look at some of the obscene fire apparatus that is being built, hosebeds too high off the ground, enclosed pump panels, quints, etc..... Instead of getting back to the basics, why do we as a culture feel the need to ever leave them! Before I get beat down by the Modern Fire Service Police, I'm well aware the dangers of the job, the dangers of lightweight construction, etc.

The fire service is in real trouble, firefighters are getting promoted without spending time in busy companies, they aren't as well trained, don't have enough of the right experience, and they don't seem to understand when these issues are brought up. Instead of focusing their attention on being firemen, they worry about the next pay grade of the thrill of riding in the front seat..... Mark my words, some people on these boards think that todays firefighters are better trained and equipped, maybe but why do we continue to burn more shit down then ever before? Anyone care to entertain that question.......

Firemen are a dying breed brothers, enjoy it while we can! Stay safe brothers and keep pushing in!
Logged

If you put the fire out, the right way, you don't have to jump out the windows. Lt. A. Fredericks. Squad 18 FDNY. (09/11/01)
JAKEPFD1958
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 795


« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2010, 04:14:26 PM »

Brooklyn , you right on the money , the FF of the new era do not see the job as a "calling" but as a paycheck. I've been around a long time and seen many outstanding officers and some not so outstanding. Needless to say you still "have to put the wet stuff on the red stuff". Many forget that . Stay safe Brothers & Sisters, Jake
Logged

The Brotherhood,Always The Brotherhood               110th Class - 1958
dude
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 58


« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2010, 03:06:15 AM »

there are still department out there that support fighting fire few and far between but there out there, it all comes down to the tradition of the house and the people who are teaching the probies, if ur from a dept. that runs no fire even the "experienced" people of that dept. arent experienced. Why are they not getting the experince because to many dept. read into all the safety articles and light weight construction stuff and absolutly believe it so when they have a decent job they pull everyone out and do it from the outside 6 hrs and thousands of gallons later the building is still standing everyone is outside joking having a family reunion on the front lawn and nobody gained any experience at  all. so i ask people if ur not willing to go in and get it what happens when u need to.. when people kids or ur own brothers are trapped.. at some point u need to weed out people that dont have the guts strengh or brains to do this. those are the people who will get u or someone ur there to protect hurt or killed
Logged
Anger Management
Administrator
Sr. Member
*****
Posts: 353



« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2010, 07:13:04 AM »

It's only going to get worse with lay offs, budget cuts, and cutting corners to save some money.
Logged


"You have enemies? Good! That means you've stood up for something in your life."
Seefour
Newbie
*
Posts: 47


« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2010, 09:00:46 AM »

I'm now living the inexperienced officer thing on a regular basis.  As I was climbing out of the engine a couple months ago, a chief officer said...... "I'm going to get a second alarm".  I said, "How about you let us get the first line in service before you do that".  It was a good first floor fire in a split level dwelling.  The line got stretched to the seat of the fire and the fire went out.  To the credit of this particular chief officer.... he didn't call that second alarm.  After the job, we had a good conversation.  I told him about an old chief that taught me to get that first line in service before going crazy asking for help.  He was receptive.  But sometimes it seems like older firefighters and company officers are spending time educating people in the ranks above them.  This seems a little convoluded to me.  People get promoted (not only in the fire service) based on how many initials they have after their name.  Very little credit seems to be given for two very important items that round out a persons ability to be a successful leader... common sense and experience.
Logged
DEP75
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 433


« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2010, 09:51:02 AM »

Brooklyn I didn't know the name of the roof man. All in all that was a very gutsy rescue and I have always looked up to the guys involved because they represent to me what the job is all about, do what has to be done even if sometimes you have to throw the book away. The last several posts are dead on. We seem to have gotten away from going in after the fire and have resorted to the "surround and drown". All too often it sems that the members who are in charge are there because of popularity and are just interested in calling the shots. I don't see anything about ballon construction on here, did all of a sudden go away? I know in my old rsponse area, it is alive and well. I wonder how many of the new breed recognize this type of construction and would know what signs to look for as what the fire is doing? Also please don't view this as bashing, it is not intended for that, just some food for thought. I used to worry about destroying someones home and a wise chief told me one time "sheetrocks cheap, it can be replaced alot less expensively than building a new home because I didn't open up." It was one of the things that I lived by and tried to incorperate into my lessons for younger firefighters.
Logged

Retired Asst./2nd Asst. Chief Runnemede Fire Dept. NJ
brooklynresq
Newbie
*
Posts: 44


« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2010, 06:49:27 PM »

No problem Chief! Just wanted to point out what a great man Pat was, another brother lost on 9/11......

It is refreshing to see that there are brothers out there that still "get it", in both senses of the word! I was lucky to come on this job at a time when we were still catching work, on a regular basis, and work and learn under very experienced and well trained officers and senior men. These men were, some still are, the definition of "first in and last out", the type of men that would teach you the way the job was supposed to be done, kick your ass if you screwed up, and made you learn so much about yourself. They taught me about pride, dedication, tradition, and the brotherhood! I'm glad to see that it still is alive and well in some areas of the country!

I've worked under chiefs who let us do our jobs and said very little an worked under chiefs who micro-managed the entire incident, to the point we couldn't do anything without his permission. It's sad to think that we are in an age where buildings and furnishings are made to burn hotter then ever before yet we don't train our men on how to effectively operate in these types of buildings!

It's also sad to see that there are guys out there that don't understand what it takes to operate at fires in older buildings, you know the ones that you'll have fire showing out of 4 or 5 windows on arrival! I refer to we as the fire services as a whole, so please don't take it as a shot at anyone in particular. We are so quick to train our members in the latest R.I.T. tactic or firefighter survival tactic that we seem to lose track of teaching them to effectively put the fire out, which is ultimately the best tactic that can be taught!

I understand that thee face of the fire service is changing, that we need to worry and train our members to deal with WMD and terrorism but we can never lose sight of the fact that fires do still happen and we need to train to aggressively put them out!

Keep fightin the good fight brothers!
Logged

If you put the fire out, the right way, you don't have to jump out the windows. Lt. A. Fredericks. Squad 18 FDNY. (09/11/01)
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.13 | SMF © 2006-2011, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!